Tribunal Executions Destroy Evidence - Nazi's Escaped Justice, Destroyed America + Earth

Third Reich Formed Through Foreign Investment & Foreign Planning
U.S. & Allied Insiders Carefully Covered Up Foreign Investment & Foreign Planning
These Nazi's Were Just Puppets
Worst Nazi's Lived To Genocide Another Day
Hitler Disappeared & Died Of Natural Causes
Albeit Many Years Later

Earth - Fight - Fight - Fight

Friday, July 6, 2012


There are times I truly hate being right.

Turner is absolutely wrapped up in this fraud to his eyeballs as in all the others that his cohorts get thrown under the bus for but unless those who know what I know and have been duped by him to participate stand up and sing and insist he be held accountable, I predict he will get away with it once again.


6-24-12 Foreword - LISTEN
BIG WARNING! No EFT success, no followup, hundreds facing foreclosure and court actions, thousands of dollars lost, nothing received in return. (TTS) - LISTEN
DUE DILIGENCE DISCOVERIES - Individual posts disturbing, in-depth research findings into EFT process, FBI warnings, and Fred and Nina Gutierrez. Talks about, mentions Fred's installation of gas mileage-saving hydrolizers in vehicles around the country, Fred's claims he is Clinical Psychologist, etc. Must listen! (TTS) - LISTEN
4-19-12 Talkshoe introduction with Tad Patterson - LISTEN

Fred Gutierrez denies Christian widow $450 refund, accused of not providing services, denies knowledge of "Sandy" and excessive use of her credit card - LISTEN
4-19-12 Christian widow makes her case against Fred and Nina Gutierrez - LISTEN
4-19-12 "Sandy" sets the record straight and tells of abandonment, verbal abuse, credit card abuse, notary fraud, attempted seduction, evasiveness of Fred and Nina Gutierrez - LISTEN

4-19-12 Caller responds to Kelby Smith's attempt to chill First Amendment rights to free speech and prevent victim's from speaking out - LISTEN
4-19-12 Caller warns others, claims in bankruptcy as a result of methods he was taught, claims needy people being hurt, allegations Fred Gutierrez plagiarized methods from others, praises Jack and Margy Flynn - LISTEN

4-19-12 Caller fights for three years to save house and loses it within two weeks of getting involved with Debt Relief Ministry (Note: Now lives in her car) - LISTEN
4-19-12 Caller blames self for being trusting, gave thousands of dollars (his, parent and friend) with expectation of service from attorney's office, receipt for payment refused, verbal abuse, unprepared for unfriendly FBI visit regarding EFT - LISTEN

 4-19-12 Caller praises Jack and Margy Flynn, EFT process looks good at first then reversed, talks about Fred's arrest, people abandoned, materials don't work, alleges no follow through, false promises, many people hurt, Fred gets defensive when challenged, implied threats of physical harm made when refund demanded, eludes to claim Fred former Olympic wrestling qualifier, independent thinkers are enemies, Jack and Margy Flynn used to lend credibility to seminars, leverage US Constitution to "con" people, prays Fred and Nina Gutierrez will repent - LISTEN

 4-19-12 CALLER TELLS ALL! ISSUES WARNING TO FRED GUTIERREZ - Describes meeting Fred and Nina Gutierrez, gave money, talks about likeability of Fred and Nina, mentions Fred as certified Clinical Psychiatrist, describes Fred as "cunning, calculating, strategizing predator, manipulating people's weaknesses", made self guinea pig of Fred and Nina's methods in spite of warnings they were schisters, alleges lack of disclosure, methods flawed, donated thousands of dollars in electronic equipment, plane tickets, etc. Thousands of dollars pre-paid on product orders via credit cards and checks without ever receiving product and/or materials, told chances of receivng product was "zero", alleges "fraud" and "balck magic", accosted by others who did not receive product, talks about despicable use of churches, relationship distressing, people being taken advantage of, lists authorities contacted, encourages victims to submit complaints, happy to have met Jack and Margy Flynn - LISTEN
4-19-12 Same caller testifies dozens of people enrolled in EFT's and none worked and that seminar attendees were used as "guinea pigs", indicates lenders cannot be forced to accept EFT's from an external agent, EFT's don't stick and are reversed, talks about inexperienced people being at a disadvantage in court, lack of full disclosure, inability of Fred to provide substantiation of successes, etc. - LISTEN

4-19-12 Same caller emphasizes problems, talks about disappearance of Fred and Nina Gutierrez, plagiarized materials, felt used and abused - LISTEN
4-19-12 Same caller refers to Fred Gutierrez as psychotic, relays Fred's story of abuse by his father and pressure to perform, challenges others to prove him wrong, still has not received pre-product, claims those who do not bend the knee to Fred are rejected, that Fred beleives he is "king" and above the law, itemizes products not received, but blame placed on customer, mentions people getting arrested, he was abandoned. Adds when Fred Gutierrez feels crossed he get "vicious", and more incriminating assessments - LISTEN

 4-19-12 CALLER TELLS ALL! - Describes firsthand experience with judge ignoring EFT case, gives case number, describes notary fraud on grant deed documentation, indicates potential issues with EFT reversal, paycheck garnishments, her incarceration, FBI visits, Fred and Nina's claim of thousands of hours of research, the inception of the name "setoffdebt" dot com, explains why she separated from Fred Gutierrez because he advised the caller and their family not to appear in court for a seatbelt violation and to flee the country. The caller's refusal sparks feigned assistance from Fred, claims paid for 17 round trip airfares for Fred, refers to being under a "spell", talks about being thrown under the bus for not being subservient, letters don't work, mentions Kelby Smith and Tim Turner, claims Fred admitted no successful EFT process, indicates 2 or 3 EFT's out of 3,000 to 5,000, mentions foreclosures, and more incriminating claims - LISTEN

 4-19-12 CALLER TELLS ALL - GRIPPING - decribes meeting Fred and Nina Gutierrez, engaging in due diligence to research EFT process, then gradually realizing the methods did not work, being faced with foreclosure, holding meetings at their home, talks about arrests beginning to occur, visits from FBI, legitimacy unraveling, abandonment, and going downhill from there. Mentions how Jack and Margy Flynn's materials were most valuable, Fred cautioning followers they are not a "team" and that the keyword to collect money is "donation", EFT reversals after a couple of months and ending up in court, talks about disarming methods used by Fred when presenting, refers to Fred as a psychologist and very manipulating using "black magic" and quoting scripture as a man of God who accepts comparisons of himself to Christ, etc. LISTEN

4-19-12 Jack and Margy Flynn relate how Fred Gutierrez hijacked their methods and experiences and publicly claimed them as his own, characterizing Fred as "sick" - LISTEN
4-19-12 Tad Patterson conference call wrap up with concluding warnings pertaining to Fred and Nina Gutierrez damaging others with final words of encouragement by Jack and Margy Flynn that victims stand up and speak out to prevent others from being harmed - LISTEN
VERY DETAILED - Chastisement to Fred Gutierrez in defense of a friend who did not receive product and services paid for in advance. Allegation of extra-material affair between Fred and an unsuspecting woman who was not his wife, etc. Jack and Margy Flynn praised. Must hear this one for yourself. (TTS) - LISTEN

 Chicago seminar attendee describes not receiving pre-paid product, being left to themselves in dire, time-sensitive matter involving a sherriff's sale of property, getting run-around from Kelby Smith, asserts EFT failure and feels lost, suspicion regarding Fred and Nina Gutierrez, pleas for help, feels disheartened Fred and Nina claim their cause as a ministry and quote the Bible. (TTS) - LISTEN

 Victim characterizes Fred and Nina as "criminals", constitutional challenge presentations made without substantive evidence, recognizes material used by Fred and Nina as plagiarized from Robb Ryder, Bible misquoted and used for "nefarious" purposes, material presented by Fred and Nina is self-contradicting, indicates verifying Fred's claim as being a "licensed psychologist in Seattle, Washington would not be difficult to verify, when discovered that Kelby Smith was facilitating this "fiasco" the "E-Brake" was pulled because they had already been involved with his previous BS to form the Republic of the United States with the Tim Turner scam several years ago. (TTS) - LISTEN

 Internet talk show host Tad Patterson describes slander threat received by Kelby Smith intended to preempt public discussion regarding personal experiences with Fred and Nina Gutierrez, challenges to them to produce substantion as to the success of the EFT methods, and the subsequent "mysterious" interference with 4-12-12 attempt to accomodate victim's calls from Hawaii who were waiting to tell their stories and warn others. Patterson outlines first hand devastation incurred by victims in the form of * Lost Homes * Lost Vehicles * Bank law suits * Garnished Wages * FBI Visits * Arrests * and * Incarcerations. Jack and Margy Flynn are praised. Listen to program and unfolding realization calls have been interfered with by clicking HERE. Also listen to (TTS) - LISTEN

 Victim claims Fred and Nina promised if half of their mortage payment was made to them on a monthly basis for FIVE YEARS the mortgage would be relieved. This individual paid $1,000/month for five months before realizing nothing was being done and they were already six months in arrears. When they attempt to correct the siutation they were already in too deep and being subjected to tactical changes by Fred and Nina and further claim they were promised "templates" to make them mortgage free without receiving follow up. Fred and Nina are blamed for their demise and offer assistance to help stop them from hurting anymore people. (TTS) - LISTEN

Victim warns others through emails Fred and Nina Gutierrez are taking their seminars nationwide potentially exposing others to the "lie". This individual states previous warnings to others were ignored to their demise, other victims were being ignored by Fred and Nina and are desperate for help, individuals are being rallied to take a stand, that Fred and Nina are not providing all the answers, and that many are being summoned into court and are fearful, but fortunately were being provided accurate information (thanks to the victim). Additionally, the victim defends themselves for being truthful in warning others and will tend to them, but mentions they, and JayJay, funded 17 roundtrip tickets and paid for food and lodging for Fred and Nina, adding this was in spite of the income Fred and Nina are  deriving from their "very profitable seminars". (TTS) - LISTEN

Victim warns others and admits they were hoaxed and foolish. Characterizes Fred Gutierrez's court advice as "numbskull", and "totally and completely incompetent" and ridiculing anything he deems as "below the line" as meaningless and not worth his time. Additionally, Fred's "alleged counsel, legal advice and assessment of court proceedings" demonstrate either complete incompetence or deliberate intent to mislead and harm via blatant incompetence. "Very curious behavior from someone who professes to want to help others and take no money for doing so". (TTS) - LISTEN

Victims wants to bring transparency, to Fred and Nina's "unconscionable actions and omissions, which have hurt so many people". The allegation is made of false promises made with no practical help or follow up, under the "guise of donations", followed by unavailability and abandonment. Fred and Nina characterized as "wolves in sheep's clothing". (TTS) - LISTEN

Victim invites others who have pre-paid for product and/or services and have been denied refunds to join them. Contact with authorities in Hawaii and Nevada is alleged followed by specific challenges to Fred and Nina Gutierrez to substantiate the effectiveness and validity of the EFT teaching. A final recommendation is made to others to double-check everything Fred and Nina purport. (TTS) - LISTEN

 VERY GOOD - Another Chicago victim claims, to Jack and Margy Flynn, similar seminar attendee experiences with Fred and Nina as of those in Hawaii. The claims are the Chicago seminar attendees were subjected to excessive stories from Fred, fell victim to the EFT process and were abandoned, left in a "lurch" and out of luck. Additionally, that they had pre-paid for paperwork and were routinely subjected to unreturned calls. The individual claims Fred charged $25/per person, and was provided food and lodging, and further confirms that Fred and Nina have indicated they have plans to move to Costa Rica. (TTS) - LISTEN

An individual passes along information alleging Fred and Nina Gutierrez have abandoned a friend and the friend's mother after promising help and as a result are facing serious charges in California. They go on to indicate they do not want these "scam artists" to harm anymore people. (TTS) - LISTEN

Another victim forwards emails to organizers of a Ventura, California event involving Fred and Nina Gutierrez. Claims disconnect by Nina after a donation was sent in exchange for services involving an IRS matter. Nina became angry when a refund wsa requested claiming donations are not refundable. (TTS) - LISTEN

Individual claims knowledge of several victims who were "sucked in" by Fred and Nina Gutierrez in Hawaii. Additionally, that Fred and Nina perfect their pitch as do carnival barkers, reaping approximately $50,000/mo, and that when Fred was challenged to provided proof of his successes he instead threatened to assault the individual. (TTS) - LISTEN

Individual inquires whether or not email pertaining to Fred and Nina Gutierrez as "frauds" based on an observation of a seminar conducted in Beaumont, California at a church. The seminar was characterized as a traveling medicine show. Jack and Margy Flynn are praised and the subsequent question is posed as to whether or not Fred and Nina are attempting to cause people to get thrown into prison. (TTS) - LISTEN

 3-12-09 A complaint is posted on Rip-Off pertaining to an unfulfilled order for an Eagle II Dent System purchased from Eagle Marketing. CLICK or (TTS) - LISTEN


  1. Teri Hinkle obviously wrote this article or was instrumental in putting it together.She needs to go raise awareness by going to the court house and beat on her pots and pans.
    I am not into the EFT material, but the other material about status and standing on the constitution as the supreme law of the land and using your protection under the Bill of Rights has worked for people just as Fred has taught.

    It is time that people quit listening to the leader of the pots and pans brigade yell about everyone else that trys to teach the people how to defend themselves. Everytime she starts some little movement, she needs financial help and she starts soliciting money. She has faced investigations and charges herself for this type of crime. I really don't care what she does, but it is high time she quits ragging on everyone else that gets a brighter spotlight then her!!

    1. Fred and Nina are scams, pure and simple. Public records indicate they have been evicted from home after home. They have both been arrested. They owe my mother her home, her car and over $30k. They move in, accept "donations", and they move on, after which time you will not be able to contact them. I manage a multi-million dollar operation, so there's no "pot and pan brigade" (whatever the hell that means) here. FWIW, Nina is my sister, and I am well aware of their shady dealings. I have names, addresses, phone numbers of people who have been conned by them.Fred is a narcissistic huckster and nothing more. His first con was on my 17 year old sister.

    2. That is not Nina's sister. Nina is my family member and that is NOT her sister. Most likely John G. again!!

    3. Wrong!I am Nina's big sister. My beautiful, smart sister is a victim of Fred's sociopathy. Just exactly WHICH family member are you?

  2. LOL obviously she did not. Whose site is that?

  3. BTW The Constitution is NOT the Supreme Law of the Land as it was written for the express purpose of protecting the people FROM THE GOV. not the other way round, was never presented or ratified by the people because it does not apply to them.

  4. it does look and sound like one of Teri's rants I listened to the whole miserable recording and there was no evidence of any facts anywhere, although I thought the accusation of grave robbing was an interesting touch. On and for the record, I know of lots of EFT's(old term) that have worked just fine, and some that did not. I know of no one has been accused or went to jail over them.

  5. I know Turner is a liar. Don't have time to research the rest.

  6. Tim Turner is not involve at all with the EFT (Fred and Nina) Fred and Nina are not in the republic.What is the problem?
    If Tim Turner lied, prove it
    Put it out there

  7. To TLGA,

    I agree the Constitution does not apply to the people, it is for the authority and limits of the government. Yes it is the Supreme law of the land. Read Art VI second paragraph. Any law repugnant to the Constitution is null and void, Marbury v Madison. Now the Bill of Rights whcih was amended to the Constitution ARE for the people and states just what a few of our rights are.
    I am sure you agree with me, we just had different wording!

    1. Wrong again. IF the Constitution does not apply to the people, why do all public servants still swear their oath to it? read it and weep!

  8. This is being promoted by several dishonorable people who took their information (which the Gutierrez give away for free) and started to sell it (which is against their policy). What offers is training and guidance for free (yes the accept donations) and not offering a service. There stuff works but if you try to tweak it it will backfire on you. They work by teaching you the information (btw alot of what they do is not EFT's but help people with triumph over shady legal practices). In order to use their information, you need to understand it and it does work. Their desire is for everybody to learn the information so we can all get our heads out of the water.

    They do not charge for their information however they accept donations.

    BTW one of the people doing the attacks just happens to be a fugitve at large and has spent years stealing other peoples money.

    I have personally worked and dealt with the Gutierrez family for several of my issues and they are one of the most honorable families that I have seen in a long time.

  9. Re: ANON. 2:10 P.M.
    He lied to Me face to face. His lies caused much emotional pain and great financial loss. I don't have to prove anything to you. I know it's true from personal experience.

  10. I have personal testimony that EFT works I have used this method many times with IRS, student loans issues and received credit for them.I also know Gutierrez family personally and they are honestly trying to help everyone, unfortunately their is only one Fred and Nina and thousands that need their help. I have personally seen both Fred and Nina working with people after each meeting and each day at the office till early hours of the morning and NO CHARGE.

    Fred has requested of those individuals that he supposedly has insured to wright a SWORN AFFIDAVIT of facts.
    NO one has done that because they know what they are saying is NOT true.
    Unfortunately, there are individuals that tried to use Fred and Nina as their milking cow and when they were kicked off.
    Now they feel that they have right to slander them..... shame on you.

    1. Well, the sworn affidavits are currently in the hands of the FBI and several State AG's. Fred and Nina and Kelby's days are numbered. The amount of money they have fraudulently taken people for is unforgivable. Complaints have been filed against them with the IRS, US Postmaster.

      Oh, and since you know the Gutierrez family so well you probably know that Fred was married when he started his affair with Nina - She was only 15 at the time. A real stand up guy!!!!!! He later divorced his wife Jennifer to mary Nina. As details about Fred's past come out he is a real piece of work. check out his and Nina's record on

      You should also know that Fred, Kelby, Nina and most of his children, who have been running the operation, will most likely end up in jail before the year is out.

    2. This is John Gutierrez again. More lies. And so not relevant! its incredible, just get a life!

  11. Jeez, Man - please don't talk so painfully slow! Enunciation is great, but not a full second between words and phrases. (6-24)

  12. Hey, here is a thought, if you have personal testimony that EFT works and have used it with the IRS, student loans and such, why don't you provide us all with YOUR sworn affidavit of the facts and supporting documentation.

    If you really know Fred and Nina so well, you must be aware of their criminal past (see and could possibly be an accomplice? Please tell us more about how well you know them. I like the comment above regarding how old Nina was when Fred started dating no laws broken on that subject...

    1. I have never received a return email since learning of F&N back in March. Oh, and that phone number on their billboard would either just ring and ring or some kids would answer and just refer people to send another email for help with yet again No Response! Lol. joke/total run around games so Yes, I do believe the previous posts with how people are treated. After hours of listening to all their calls most seem rehearsed with the Q&A sessions only allowing "certain selected" callers through and avoiding area codes in which they are seriously avoiding people. I have yet to see this process work. Their response is always the same that the docs with the PROOF of court cases WON be put up in the back office but it's August 2012 and it's been 5 months now!


  13. I may work with a few banks who release the lien before they realize that it is a scam, but guess what the lien is made valid and the states are aware of Fred and Nina's scam. And as a few people have stated, if they are so GREAT, why do they have arrest records and eviction records and warrants for their arrest now? And every incorporation has been revoked by the state. And the EFT they are peddling is completely worthless. As for you have done this and it works, come on and show us. Because you may have a set off but if the court records are checked, mostly there is a court case right behind it suing you for the money or the property.

    If eft is so great then why don't you live off the eft program. Also would you work for a company that gives you a paycheck with EFT on it????

    1. You are ignorant. Duh, a paycheck is not a debt. Learn before you open your mouth

  14. Here's proof that the EFT process, discharged a debt of $41,000 owed to the IRS.
    All the naysayers out there, PROVE THAT THIS ISN'T FACTS AND PROOF!

    If these affidavits are real & truly signed by someone against Fred & Nina, then why don't you post them here, or shut up? I don't believe it.

  15. I went to the Washington Child Support website & typed in the name of "John Gutierrez" the liar that is defaming Fred Gutierrez and Nina Gutierrez, and found out he owes $65,242.93 in back child support and here's the proof:

    Hey, try finding a bigger flake than that, and I'll eat my hat.

    So you want to believe a man that says he wants to honor his father's name, a father who committed suicide that doesn't even honor his own name because he doesn't give a rat's ass about his own children.
    Yea, believe everything this guy says without any investigation and call it "more evidence." LOL

    Besides what kind of older brother would do & say such things about a younger brother when they are all lies and is done in anger & in hate, not to help people find the truth?

    Couldn't you tell that the people who formed this website had "an axe to grind"? It's so obvious that most people could see that right off. Why not you?

    There's a sense of "hate" and spite in the voices of the people that are giving "false testimony".

    Here's the credential of John Guterrez:

    1. Known fugitive in Washington State
    2. Restraining order from his 2nd wife.
    3. He owned a male stripper business who quotes scriptures (LOL)
    4. Owes $65,242.93 in back child support
    5. Dead beat dad
    6. 2nd wife accused him of adultery

    Yea, by all means believe everything this guy says without questioning.

    And for Fred & Marjorie, the couple behind all of these lies, in addition to John Guiterez, they are just jealous of Fred & Nina's success & they too have an axe to grind because they were only interested in Fred & Nina to exploit them for money, and no other reasons, and when Fred & Nina said no, they went on a rampage to ruin Fred & Nina's character.

    You've got to understand people's motivations for what they do before you can effectively judge someone.

    You have judged Fred & Nina as "narcissists". They are not. Their hearts are in the right place.

    If you have a problem with your brother, you go to him first and try to settle it in private. According to the Bible, you don't make it a "public issue" and defame your brothers name, even if it is true. Since John Guiterez has made this public, I am also making these things public. So this John Guterrez is like the Pharisees and Saducees in Jesus's time; they pretend to be humble and righteous, but inwardly are just liars and wolves, who don't give a rat's ass about people.

    But the things said against Fred & Nina aren't true, & some heads are going to roll because of this.

    It wouldn't even surprise me if the FBI is encouraging the behavior of John Guiterez & Jack & Marjorie & Tad who are the one's behind this website and the lies that are perpetrated on the internet:

    What does the Bible say about fathers that don't provide for their children?
    Its says "they are worse than infidel's and are worse than nonbelievers and have denied the faith". So why would anyone want to listen to John Guiterez as someone who can judge anyone fairly? He's a hypocrite of the first degree!!!!!

    1. Well joseph, I am sorry to say that what is being said about fred and nina is true. I have a friend that is knee deep in foreclosures - 5 to be exact. See, the problem is: people will believe anything if it offers then a way out of an undesirable situation. My friend is not uneducated in any way. This is what makes this situation so bewildering. How could anyone or group convince a person of sound mind to stop paying there bills and expect to survive by writing bad checks? Thats' not being soveriegn, but rather digging oneself deeper into debt slavery! True sovereignty is turning your back on a system that is corrupt and unfair. You set yourself free by creating something different, not by circumventing. I am not at liberty to give out someone elses personal information. I assure you that the eft process does not hold up in court. One reason is that it is foreign to the courts and the fititous money generated by a bad check from a closed account cannot be traced! Tell me, would it be ok if your employer paid you with a bad check and when the check bounces, the employer insist that he paid you and is willing to go to court to prove it - THAT IS PSYCHOPATHIC!

    2. 5 foreclosures! Wow, sounds like someone was greedy! The last time someone asked Nina how to deal with 8 foreclosure, she told them to give away 7 of them to people in need, then they would help for free on the house the lady was living in!! Learn before you open your mouth.

  16. Fraud Finder: Prove what you say, and don't discuss "non-issues", and also explain this below if you believe falsely that EFT instruments are fraud by using a "closed checking account":
    The Court and Black’s Law 3rd Edition has defined the purpose of a “closed account”: “An account to which no further additions can be made on either side, but which remains still open for adjustment and set off which distinguishes it from an account stated. Bass v. Bass 8 Pick. (Mass.) 1w87; Volkening v. De Graaf, 81 N.Y. 268; Mandeville v Wilson, 5 Cranch 15, 3 L. Ed. 23.

    All that is being done when an EFT is being issued off a closed checking account, not an "open account", which is an "account stated" is
    adjustment and set off. Set off is affiliated with "discharge of debt". It's not illegal, but is recognized as legal in Black's law and in the courts. So I don't care about any allegations of a scam, or warrants, or arrests or any other nonsense you want to post that is not related to truth, fact, evidence, and law. What you are saying is totally irrelevant to the facts.

  17. Fraud Finder: A check is not an EFT; they are two different financial instruments. That shows your lack of intelligence right there.

    1. Joseph,

      I know you are right. I have been using EFTs for a while. I could tell you lots.

  18. Fraud Finder: If an EFT was reversed, it is the banks that are violating the law as a "reverse bank wire" by definition CANNOT BOUNCE, AND THE BANK CANNOT LEGALLY DO A "CHARGE BACK":

    If a "charge back" is done by the bank, THEY ARE THE ONE'S VIOLATING THE LAW, AND CAN BE SUED.

    Also cite me the court cases where banks have sued an individual for issuing an EFT?

    If you can't provide those, you've lied again.

    And you can't "live off the EFT program" as it's purpose is to "discharge debt", not to buy things, so again your ignorance is showing.

  19. Fraud Finder: I doubt that you work for a bank, because an EFT is not a check. They are two separate type of instruments. Checks can be deposited, an EFT instrument has on it, "not for deposit", so again you don't know what you are talking about.

    If you work for a bank, you must be just a teller or someone lower in the bank, as you know very little about banking and what instruments are used and accepted in banking.

    If you have a "set off" the debt is discharged, and the contract is fulfilled, and you owe nothing.

    Banks aren't stupid, they know what these instruments are, and they know they are valid.

    What is happening when they reverse the accounting, is that the money goes to pay off the debt, and then the monies are diverted and transferred to a high executive in the bank to their personal bank account and they blame the accounting being reversed since the person used a closed checking account to discharge debt. If you followed the money trail, you would see that the banks are committing fraud when they reverse these payments.

  20. Fraud Finder: Do you think everyone that is arrested is guilty? LOL
    How naive can you get? Do you also think that all warrants are valid? What does an incorporation being revoked, IF TRUE, have to do with the legitimacy of an EFT? I've already shown you that an EFT has worked to discharge an IRS debt of $41,000, even though you have proven no proof of your allegations! I guess if you repeat lies enough times, people accept them as being true.

    1. These are great responses, Joseph. I especially like this one "Do you think everyone that is arrested is guilty?" Most people have no clue about the commercial system or the many methods of commercial redemption and set off. The EFT is not my preferable choice but I fully understand the process and why it is fully legal (and lawful). Arguing with Fraud Finder about this stuff is like arguing with a janitor about how to perform surgery (and you're the doctor, lol).

  21. Fred and Nina Gutierrez now confirmed over 85 Million in Debt Gone.

    So if it was fraud then why has he not been arrested for his siminars using this info.

    There only working out the details as they go; and things stop working.

    This amount above explains why all these people will point out all these other things to discredit Fred.
    and if you are stupid; like attempting to remove your morgage and get caught. You deserve what you get.Your the scammer attempting to scam.
    You use the services you owe the money !!!! If a atm gives me money I did not ask for I will take it; then there to big for there own good giving machines authority over there goods; and they then deserve it./. As fred says if I barrow from Paul; I dont pay Peter the debit; because I have nothing to do with Peter. IRS scam sell the debit to a collection agency the buyer does not collect and files a loss for that year.

  22. Fred and Nina's technology is sound and works if you know how to defend it. It is supported by law. The problem is that too many people want a quick fix and don't want to do what they have to do. You must understand the law behind it so that you can follow through...and you MUST follow through. Fred's theory is that "all roads lead to court" so you must keep track of things in that way. I agree that you should always be prepared for court but I completely disagree that all roads lead to court. It's still about jurisdiction and we DO NOT have to grant jurisdiction.

    I have a few gripes about Fred and Nina as well, which is why I've chosen not to follow them anymore. Most are the same things others are saying. My biggest gripe is that they discourage others from looking into other technologies while not explaining at all why their technology works (except for citing laws). I think they're doing a major disservice by leaving out such crucial information. I also believe that if you're going to be sharing the type of info they are, then you have to be accessible to those following you. Fred and Nina are most likely just very busy, which is why they don't respond, but they should make it clear that they are hard to reach instead of acting like they're just an e-mail away. They should also give more warnings about their technology and the fact that people should be 100% ready to defend this process if they do it, instead of making it seem like theirs is a silver bullet and the only remedy and simple to do. Functioning in commerce is NOT simple and takes a lot of study. Also, I've been to a couple of seminars and they're poorly facilitated. He says he's going to discuss this and that, and by the end he never gets to it.

    All in all I think they mean well and really are trying to help people. I don't believe they're the frauds people want to think they are. It isn't their responsibility to make sure people aren't foreclosed upon. It's our individual responsibility. I'm sick of people blaming others for their problems. That's such BS.

    Still, I think they could do things differently. Speaking of personal responsibility, it's their own actions that have created a situation of distrust and lack of credibility.

    1. they talked about Frank 3.0. If anyone has a copy of it please let me know. I just got a judgement against me from Discover Bank (after it had been written off in 2012) and a 3rd Party Debt Collector sued me!Anyway, am thinking of Title 42, need that Frank 3.0 to help me win when I go to court.

  23. As of this week a good a good friend of mine in Wilmington, Nc...who belived in this EFT Fred & Nina "shit" there selling has lost his home and five rental properties...banks foreclosed... he even appealed to foreclosure rulings ...was over-ruled .... all properties are gone.. life time of work... wife just may divorce him...they must find a home to rent by mid August...foreclosure sale date on this family home... If it's to good to be is.. come on folks..if you believe this BS of fred and nina...u must believe in unicorns...faries, easter bunny .... etc.. CRAZY.. NOTHING IS FREE!!!


  25. I am Afraid I was scammed by Fred and Nina also. I paid them through their daughter who was collecting the money at the door, $300 and never got a thing for it. I kept emailing them asking them for my money only to be ignored. it has been almost two years now and they have never replied to me in any way. They are crooks. They are very slick. They certainly know how to play the scam game

    1. You are a liar Joanne. Once again, not telling the whole truth. Fred did about $5000 worth of work for you. I guess some people can never get "enough help"!

  26. I love Nina! Fred and Nina helped me with a criminal case, did NOT charge me. I won and they certainly taught me more than EFT!!

  27. The blame is ill placed. You can't blame Fred & Nina because one lost their homes. You should blame the bank for that or the courts for not following the law. Besides it's all a rigged game anyway.